Time adjustment

[sunny_birds]

Have a Kienzle carriage clock with 563a/011 mechanism. The clock is running fast, have tried adjusting the small leaver on the top,but this changes the tick, and doesn't seem to affect the number of beats/min. There is what appears to be a balancing disc on to of the escapement wheel. But again the seems to have no effect on time.
Can anyone help with this type of escapement?
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Have a Kienzle carriage clock with 563a/011 mechanism. The clock is running fast, have tried adjusting the small leaver on the top,but this changes the tick, and doesn't seem to affect the number of beats/min. There is what appears to be a balancing disc on to of the escapement wheel. But again the seems to have no effect on time.
Can anyone help with this type of escapement?
Robin[/quote]
Just adding, have found out the disc on top of the escapement wheel should speed up or slow down the clock.
Have tried the two extremes, with hardly any difference. The clock still gains about about 6 minutes a hour.
Robin

[willofiam]

Just noticed your question, been really busy here.....This is a tough question to answer with limited information. To help answer your question I have to ask some questions myself. Have you taken the movement apart cleaned, bushed if needed? inspected the floating balance assembly for any wear, rust, over oiling, cracked jewels if it has them? How much oscillation do you have? meaning how far in rotation does the silver disk spin in each direction.? should be somewhere around 360 degrees total. These have to have full oscillation in order to be able to regulate. some of them you can add weight to slow them down but that is only if every other issue is addressed. William

[sunny_birds]

Hi William
Have not taken any of the escapement apart, only replaced the hour spring, and general clean and oil.
Silver wheel only oscillates less than 90 degrees. When giving a good tick.
By adjusting the spring at the top can get up to about 150 degrees before it stops ticking.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Have played around with adjustments at each end of the Spring, and managed to get about 300 degrees, but tick does not sound even.
Robin

[willofiam]

[sunny_birds]

Hi William,
By rotating the small spring loaded wheel on top of the escapement wheel, seemed to make little difference.
I ended up by Turing the small leaver right at the top of the suspension Spring anti clockwise, when looking from the top.
This has allowed me to get just about 360 degrees rotation, but the clock is still gaining about 1/2 hour, every 16 hours.
My cleaning involved stripping everything except the escapement down and given an altrasonic clean.
Robin

[willofiam]

Robin, to get good amplitude there is not a adjustment that you would do to the suspension spring. Do a search on this forum or a google search on floating balances, there is alot of good information out there. ALSO, try a test, take the floating balance out of the movement, mount it in a vise and turn it almost 360 degrees, let it go, should run for 2-3 minutes. Also, with the power down on the mainsprings, remove the lever from the movement, give the time mainspring a couple of clicks, see if the time train moves freely. A picture of your movement would be helpful.

[sunny_birds]

Ok will do as you suggested.
Still working on how to get pictures small enough to post.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

image.jpeg (563.51 KiB) Viewed 10883 times

Hi again,
Escapement runs just over 4 minutes out of clock.
Hard to check train as I'll have to split case to remove leaver, but seem to turn quite easily at two to three clicks of Spring ratchet. As I move the leaver by hand.
Tried to send picture of clock but seems to not be in preview.
Robin

[Bernie Weishapl]

When you said you stripped everything but the escapement down does that mean you separated the plates and removed all wheels? That movement is pretty finicky and needs to be cleaned well. That mean taking all wheels out and polishing the pivots. After cleaning the holes in the plates need to be pegged out to make sure all is clean. The pinions on the wheels need to be checked to make sure they are clean. A new spring is a start. Also post a picture of your floating balance. There are two types and I am thinking that the one you have is a older floating balance. Here is some info you should study if yours is a older balance.

http://www.nawcc-index.net/Articles/Murray-hermle.pdf

http://www.davesclocks.net/uploads/5/8/ ... ummary.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lyY2IJ46xE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZfyBfU6Ums

[sunny_birds]

Yes had to split plates to get to spring, did not polish pivots though.
I'm not at home at the moment will post escarpment later.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

If pivots etc were dirty. Wouldn't clock run slow or stop. It is very hard to actually stop the escarpment from re starting on its own.
Robin

[Bob Tascione]

[sunny_birds]

Thanks Bernie, Bob and William,
Are you telling me I've got to pull it all apart again. !!! Oh no.
So are you saying Tom that I should be able to slow it down some more before it stops?
Which adjustment should I use to obtain this?
Should I not touch the brass leaver at the top of the escapement Spring?
Sorry sounds like lots of questions, I'm new to this but have an engineering background.
Will wait your reply before pulling it all apart again. I think I'm on a steep learning curve.
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Tom should read Bob

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bernie
The sites you sent me have been very helpful, it has cleared up a lot of my questions.
Thanks
Robin

[Bob Tascione]

[sunny_birds]

Hi Bob
Have just noticed, the guard pin, bent part of fork. Hits the end of the safety roller. When it kicks clockwise looking from the top. So only can rotate about 90 degrees in that direction. The info Berni sent me says it should not contact the safety roller in normal motion. If so should it run on the inside or outside of the safety roller?
Robin

[sunny_birds]

Should have mentioned I understand what you mean about rotational momentum. At present you can hear it hit the safety roller.
Robin